Monday, November 19, 2007
Not Counting Women and Children Weeks 3 & 4
Greetings ya'll! It has been a crazy couple of weeks in Campus Ministry. I pray that those of you who were a part of Antioch and Marist Encounter had a great experience. This week we will be reflecting on Chapter 3 - Unless You Become Like a Little Child and Chapter 4 - Women in the Genealogy of Jesus. I look forward to your reflections. Peace.
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Since I just finished reading chpt 4, Im going to write about that one first...
Tamar: At first, I couldnt see the similarity between this woman and Mary. Then I read the sentence, "She brings new life, a shift, something unexpected into the lineage and history." Just like Mary, her conception came about in an unlikely way and the birth it self was unique, too.
Rahab: She sounds like quite the woman to me, which is why Im not surprised that she is mentioned in the genealogy. She took a great risk, and got a great reward, just like Mary. The scarlet cord reminds me of lamb's blood used in Passover. HEr similar response to the spy as Mary's to the angel was another connection in the bible that I hadn't realized.
Ruth: I found it of interest that Tamar was mentioned in this story. Both women abviously held great importance, but I think Ruth is an even more extrodinary woman because of her obvious love to her mother-in-law. She turns from safety for love and ends up being justly rewarded with a husband and child. The link to Mary comes through the men in their lives who protected them from society because of God's Will. Ruth and Naomi remind me of Mary and Elizabeth. THe young serve the elders first.
Bathsheba: Of the women mentioned, I probably like her story the least, which Im sure happens a lot. I dont fault her for being with David, but I am disturbed by the death of their first child. It's supposed to be justice, but how can an innocent's death be just when it is the parents who committed the sin? I guess that question is just one of the few I have for this chapter considering two of the women slept with men that were not their husbands yet. But still, the children in this last story are what hit me the strongest, especially when McKenna says, "Solomon...the Lord loved him, we are told." Was the other child not loved by Him, then? I don't think that's possible. The shared experience in her and Mary's lives is losing a child, but I think the situations are completely different...All in all, my fav chapter yet.
The first thing that shocked me about this chapter is when she tells us that the word in Aramaic for child is the same for servant/slave, and how they are seen as fitting at the bottom of society. Added to that when she says "children were the property of the parents" and Im not surprised that abortion is legal. You can destroy your own property, cant you?
On a brighter note, I never really think of Jesus as my other big bro, but it's pretty cool to think that way. It makes it easier to understand that children are given wisdom before adults since Jesus is the Son-or Child- of God. So to harm children or lead them onto the wrong path on purpose, is the same as doing it to Jesus, and no one wants to have that sin on their hands.
Another point I agree with is "children are curious, experimental and nonjudgemental, until they are taught the difference..." This is so true, we reap what we sow, and if we sow no morals, we reap a child who has had his/her path stolen. She later goes on to mention the first victims of injustice being the next generation. This seems to me to mean more than just how the world connections will affect the next generation, but the more personal betrayal of abortion. We should take out a page from the Native Americans- we'd have a lot more children turning 7 years old in the world if we did.
Chapter 4...since it's fresh in my mind
I honestly have to say that I never really noticed that there were four women metioned in the genealogy of Jesus. I don't know about everyone else, but when we had to read the Gospel of Luke, I just kind of skimmed that part because there were too many strange names that I can't pronounce, so why bother reading. But after reading the version found in Matthew it was kind of an eye opener to the fact that there were women mentioned in the line.
As Mckenna explained each other the four women in the line. One thing really struck me. That Jesus' family histroy was full of deceit, adultry, unfaithfulness, and murder, which is sort of ironic in a way. But i guess it's just like everyone's family ties, not one family in this world contains perfect people, so there is always some type of sin or evil act. It's just wierd that Jesus was born into a blood line with so much interference by outside people that committed some type of sin which resulted in the addition of themselves into the blood line and creating desendents.
Three out of the four women mentioned had one thing in common they committed adultry or they were prostitutes. I don't know why, but the worst sin woman usually commits is adualtry/prostitution in the Bible. Tamar used sex to gain advantage over her father-in-law and God actually favored that. But isn't that wrong, I know she waas trying to make something good of it. But the end, doesn't justify the means by which you got there right? So why would God favor lying, cheating, and deciet? The one that surprised me the most was Ruth. How many women in today's society will give up everything they had for their mother-in-law. Very. very few I will tell you that. A mother-in-law is usually the last person a woman gets along with, so for Ruth to sacrifice her life for Naomi was a great act. She didn't really do anything wrong like the other women, but she wasn't perfect either, but she was certainly the one that sacrificed the most.
Chapter 3....not so fresh
I don't know where, but I know i have heard of the story that is first mentioned at the start of this chapter. Where the people gave their children to God, in order for them to recieve His gift. I really never noticed before how the children are at the bottom of the society. It's so strange compared to the society we have in this country. How bad would it be if the children were the last people we thought of in today's world? There would be millions more starving or dying then there already is. God tells us that his kingdom belongs to the ones that come last. The last will come first and the first will go last. So that means the poor, the sick, the elderly, and the women and children will come first before the wealthy, the greedy, and the higher powers that are selfish. The kingdom belongs to the children. Which we are the children because we are the children of God.
Hello Everyone! Sorry I forgot about blogging. But it seems only Kat and Erika posted information.
CHAPTER 3: UNLESS YOU BECOME LIKE A LITTLE CHILD
The title of this chapter really struck me at first. Unless you become like a little child because immediately I remembered that passage of when Jesus was talking to the disciples and he grabs a child and bsically tells them that children will go to heaven and they nust become a child.
Just like Erika, I was suprised to know that in Aramaic the word for child and slave/servant is the same. It really affected me that they think that children are the lowest in society and even in their own families.
I really loved this chapter, it interested me so much, and McKenna explains the chapter in full detail.
I recall the part where she asked, "If a man had ato save a family member [in a fire], and were only allowed to save one person, who would you save your spouse, parents, or children?"
And the answer was parents, then wife, then children. Children are last that is what angered me, but it is acceptable seeing as I now found out that they are even below servanthood.
In today's world, the theme that children are the future is used. Therefore, most likely people would choose to save their children first, because I don't wnat to be rude, but in this world hardly anyone takes care of the elderly. Except for maybe Hispanics and Asians. But a majority of the elderly are in Nursing Homes or living alone with no help from their children. So in today's world the past is forgotten.
Another point that impacted me was concerning the parable of the lost sheep. McKenna interpretted that story in a different way than I have interpretted it when I read it. I thought the reason God or the shepherd would be overjoyed to find his lost sheep that strayed away was because that sheep has sinned against God. And God will be more happy in a sheep who repents and returns than sheep who never sin. Of course, I would be happy as well to find out that a friend or loved one of mine has seen what they have done wrong and are really adament in making things right.
However, McKenna interpretted it in a way that I never thought. Although, I still see the parable my way, I do love her interpretation. She said "The lost and staying sheeep is the one not attended to, cared for, or kept in the community." That hit me a lot. She goes on further to explain how we atracize people for doing a wrong thing without going after them. They disappear and nobody misses them. We reject people who do not adhere to laws or our beliefs. It made me realize how everytime I walk away when I feel that I'm not loved or being attended to, it makes me feel horrible in the inside like I'm not wanted. That's why I try not to hurt others in the same context because everyone has a place to belong, especially children.
Another point that I have always seen is that children when they come into the world they do not know bad. It is through experiences and what they interpret from the world and their parents as bad. They are innocent. They are somewhat angelic, and I uderstand why they have a place in heaven because they should be cared for and loved equally. A child will make friends without seeing race or color or any prejudice in their eyes. They follow their parents and help when they can. It's true we have to become childlike.
Erika: I always thought about Jesus being my brother and not my Father when I come to think of the Trinity because if Jesus is the SON of God and we are the children of God. We are brothers and sisters. And you did bring a new light when you said children are property no wonder there is abortion. That is true.
Kat: You bring up an excellent point when tlaking about the ones who are last shall go first. And I am happy because they deserve it a lot more than I do.
Chapter 4
It is true we all want to know our family background. Where we come from? Who we really are? All this can help identify ourselves, and maybe complete are part that is missing for those who think they come from nowhere because everyone has a beginning starting with God.
Tamar: It bothers me that Judah has not been in favor of God, and just to save the life of his child because his child will continue the family name. He sends a responsibility that God has given upon him to take care of hte widow of his son. In addition, it made me think his wife just died doesn't he mourn for her? Instead he sleeps with a harlot? Tamar is really intelligent to know Judah's weakness. I am proud of her because she had to take care of herself and do what is right, eventhough it was in the wrong way.
What Tamar did reminds me of what the midwives did against the Pharoah. They were brave and took the Law into their hands and broke it to save lives of children.
Erika: Just like her, I could not see how Tamar relates to Mary. I uderstand now that the conception were both out of Law. But it is true God works in mysterious ways.
Rehab: I admire her courage to betray heer people, and save not only herself and her family. Just like Erika the red cord marking her house reminded me of that passage in the Bible during Passover.
Ruth: Back then, it was right to serve the elders. However, in today's world. We forget about them when we can learn so much.
I like the beginning when McKenna says, "Ruth's story is about solidarity..." it made me think and I really enjoyed reading about her. I do like Ruth the best out of the four. She worked hard and showed love in many ways. She is like Mary because she submits herself to God w/o any resistance.
Bathsheba: It was wrong for her to sin and commit adultery when her husband is away. Man, cheating, does go back very far. You hear many people saying that cheating never happened before that it only in this century. the truth be told that it is more commonly known now than it is back then. And it somehow it today's world seems to be acceptable. There is no harsher punishment.
However, at least David acknowledges his sin. I see how Bathsheba is like Mary b/c of the mourning but I do not like her that much. So maybe that's why I am not so talkative about her.
Erika: Concerning your opinion of Bathsheba, there is a saying that the sins of the father are passed upon on to the child. It's like a curse, but I completely agree with you that why should their child die, when it is their fault. I guess probably because God wanted to hurt them in a different way. Taking their life would not make them realize their mistakes. However, taking the life of someone they loved and cared for will hurt them the most, even if that someone was innocent. At least we know that the child is in heaven with God.
Kat: I understand your feeling on why would God want Jesus to be born into a line of sinners. And you're right a great sin, at least to me, for women is prostitution and adultery. Because our bodies are the Temples for the Holy Spirit. But think of it this way Kat, God wanted to emphasize that great things or great ppl (Jesus) can come from sinners. If Jesus came from a linaege of saints, it would almost be "too holy" don't you think. This way we can relate with Jesus past because we are all sinners. We were born with original sin. And if these women mentioned be McKenna did not do the things the did, then Jesus might of not been born.
Im just as confused as you are Kat, about whether the ends justified the means. And your definitely right about Ruth being special considering her love for her mother-in-law. As for your skimming of the geneaology before, I did the same. McKenna makes it a lot easier to understand.
I dont think children are still the bottom of society as they were back then. But I do agree they along with the poor and sick deserve so much more than is given to them. We are all children of GOd, no matter what age, but the good children are those that care the most about their little bros and siss.
Im glad Mona brought up the fire and who to save. Im pretty sure most parents in todays world would chose their child, and maybe some would chose the spouse because they would think "We can have more children." As for back then, Im also not surprised the kids wouldnt be picked. I wouldnt pick a servant either, no matter how horrible that sounds. This story also reminds of the one where there is also a fire but it asks "do you save 5 strangers or 1 loved one?" I think that is the harder decision.
Erika: I felt the same way when i read the story of Bathsheba. Yea, how come the child has to sufer a deadly fate, when it was the parents who messed up. But who am I to question God right? But something great came out of the death of the first born, Solomon, a great king that God loved very much. Death brings new life, just like Jesus did, with His death, He brought us new everlasting life.
Mr. Novela, I'm sorry I'm a little late but I've been home sick throwing up so I don't have my book with me. This is actually the first time I am able to get out of bed. I did chapter three last week on a sheet of paper so I'll transfer it over. I will be in school tomorrow so I will have chapter 4 by the end of tomorrow. I'm sorry.
CHAPTER 3:
I think that society makes such a big difference on children today and how they think and act. I believe that the people in the bible passage (I think it was the Jews, but I'm not sure) were so right in their beliefs and priorities of children being so important because they are the future. They are the only chance in making the world a better place and the only chance in fixing the mistakes from our generation. They bring emphasis on childhood, making kids want to be kids instead of wanting to be a grown-up like and 8 year old in our society today.
This time in a person's lif is really the best because it is the happiest. If you spend time with a child you see the joy that never ends because of the innocence of mind, body, and soul. I think that that is what Jesus was talking about when He said about the people needing to be
"childlike." Children believe with everything they have, never having one single doubt even without seeing any evidence. A perfect example of that would be Santa Claus. That's the way God wants us to believe in Him.
I find myself sometimes thinking that I am still an adult child of God. I think that little by little I am getting closer to really finding my way home and really being a child. Sometimes I feel closer than others, but I know that it's a long path and it's not easy.
Mona
I know what you mean about the part about which would you save.
I would definitely not have done it that way. It just doesn't make any sense to me. How could children be considered to be like servants. The way I think is that the elderly person has lived their the majority of their life already. They have had their chance and enjoyed it, but a child hasn't had the chance to exoerince life yet. How could I deprive them of that opportunity. I would hate to be in that situation but if I were I think that both my parents and my husband would tell me to to save the kids first then come back for them. That is what I would say.
CHAPTER 4
Wow, I found this chapter to be so intresting. To be honest, when I am reading the bible and I don't like reading the geneology of people. I find it to be so boring and useless because it is just a list of names that I have never heard about. All of th stories of the women were so interesting and I know that I would have never known that these people were ancestors of Jesus. I had heard some of these stories in the past, but never related it to Jesus.
All of these women had so much courage so I could understand why they are mentioned in the geneology of Jesus. I was just a bit confused about the things that the women did and how God was still on their side helping them. I had always been taught that the path is more imortant than the destination. I believe that even if you have the right mentality for the outcome, if you go by it by doing something wrong it pretty much cancels out the goodness of the outcome.
McKenna kept mentioning how they were doing the right thing according to the Law, but I don't quite understand what Law she is talking about. I didn't think that some of the women had really done anything bad at all, but acting like a prostitute and being unfaithful I think is really bad.
These women really did change everything with their actions they worked hard and achieved the impossible. That's why they are so similar to Mary.
dear all of you!...I've been reading your blogs whenever I get a chance (am on the road so it's hard sometimes to pick up and respond). You are certainly digging into the text--which the Jewish people would call studying the Word of God to see what it does to you today. I notice that you respond a lot to what you hear/see as new ideas for you and things you haven't thought about before, but remember too that the bible is written not just about them and people who lived (for the older testament) more than 3000+ years ago, but it's written for us. When we read it, we're supposed to ask ourselves what God is telling us, and that God is questionning us on what we are going to do now, that we know these new things.
I picked the phrase out of the scriptures "Not counting women and children" because I wanted anyone who read the book to realize that the people we usually ignore, don't pay attention to, and sometimes, even think of ourselves as unimportant are the ones that God usues most often to say the really important things to us. So we have to listen to everyone and listen to the Word of God in the scriptures knowing that God uses just ordinary people to try to tell us the truth. He has since the beginning...and when you read pieces of the Old Testament it's like reading the reflections of people who are 'like in the first grade'....and as the old testamnet develops and you get to the prophets it as though they are now about 10 grade...and hopefully by the time to get to the gospels, especially the words that Jesus says, and what Jesus does is what we are to become now, here in our world, no matter what age we are--as the children of God, young and growing and getting older, more mature and hopefully, more the beloved children of God, more free, more compassionate and more truthful and faithful like Jesus.
How are you like the women in the stories--the midwives, the women and children not counted, the four women in the geneology of Jesus--no matter what we do, or don't do--if we believe in Jesus, then everything is redeemable and everything can become something graceful for others. God can use us each and all for bringing his Good News to the poor and his kingdom on earth now...in fact, if we don't bring the kingdom of God, if we don't act like the beloved children of God now, no one will know what it looks like--it isn't enough that we read about it, or talk about it, or even pray about it, we have to make the words come true in our lives, relationships and world now...a man by the name of Meister Eckhart (a Dominican in the 13th century) said...if the child of peace is not born in us today (Christmas) then it matter not that he was ever born so long ago--we are the beloved children of God, and we're supposed to look and be like Jesus. Blessings of thanksgiving weekend to all of you. Shalom, Megan McKenna
BulThese two chapters are ok. Just like Mona The title of this chapter really struck me in away. But i immediately remembered a passage of when Jesus was talking to the disciples and he grabs a child and bsically tells them that children will go to heaven and they must become of a child. But chapter 4 intrest me the most. I gess because the three out Of the four women mentioned in the story had one thing in common and that was they committed adultry.
Chapter 3 cites how if do not become like the unnoticed, entering the kingdom of heaven is not possible. We must make ourselves humble. Those who spit on us because we are seen as inferiors do not enter paradise due to the fact that they are judgmental, with no right whatsoever, towards us. Whether it may economic status or our race we must be like Lazarus and the rich man. Thos who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who are humbled will be exalted so it is written. That is the law and there is no other scapegoat. It is true that the young are looked down unto, but Jesus exalts us because of our innocence and love. Chapter 4 elicits how women are forgotten, frankly, because they are women. In this section of the book it is said that only four women are mentioned in the genealogy of women, and the question is why and who are they. These women represent the minority of the women who to initiative and put there foot down. There actions were no fortuitous, but with every intention. They have been named the antithesis of the society because they not only risked there lives, but in some cases there bodies such as, Mary conceiving Jesus, and Tamar acting promiscuously only to obtain what is rightfully hers. These women have become paramount because there actions have overpowered that of there words.
The thing that really had me at an OMG point was reading that peolple have actually seen their child as a slave. Peolple that believe in such foolishness shouldnt be able to have children. It's really weird being told that the wisdom of God belongs to children before it belongs to adults. I guess it just has been put in my mind so much that an adult is always over a child. But I glad to say that I know better now.
ok i know i'm super late on this one and i am really sorry about that mr.novela!
chapter 3:
after i read this chapter, i was stunned to hear how children were viewed back then compared to today's society. it's somewhat ironic because they say sometimes that history repeats itself and as a result constantly learn from our mistakes. yet here i think someone stopped and really thought about who these children are. today we are constanstly told since kindergarden that we are the future and to prepare ourselves. From there we begin to prepare ourselves from succeeding in school to then prepare for the real word. what i found ironic was and mona made a point of the question on whom would be saved first in a burning house. according to the book, children were left last and the elderly first which i thought didn't make sense. Yes from the elderly people we learn about their past mistakes and their history but what about the children? the children were the future from them and needed to prepare for what was to come.
chapter 4:
ok this one affected me just as much. it's amazing how women are looked down in the Bible and how similar it can be in today's society. i found it interesting how in Jesus' lineage that there were imperfections. there were women who messed up yet in the end, after them being looked down on in their lives, criticized, etc., Christ came about that. i'm not trying to insult Him or anything but really, it's inspiring to read that even Christ's family wasn't perfect. in a way i think it can somewhat relate in today's society because women sometimes are looked down on and called certain names because she's dated a certain number of men yet when a man does this he is praised for it. it's ridicious sometimes how hypocritical people can be and even though back then they were physically punished, it's pretty much the same except with words. as mentioned in chapter four, these women were looked down on as prostitutes and adulters. i'm not saying that i support these behaviors but in the end, look what came out of these "sinners".
chapter 3 just shows how society was so mixed up and confused.no wonder jesus had to bring his son down because they didnt put a child first and thats not right, if there was a fire older people need to save themselves and children need to be the first out there because they have the rest of there life in front of them and it sucks for people to refer child to a slave. If they had more respect for children and acted like it more maybe it would have been a better place for them.
Chapter 4 To be honest i just thought like 2 women were mentioned in the bible just ece and mary now i know more. Tamar had sex to get over on her father in law. Rahab betrayed the people to save herself and her family.Ruth gave her all to god and loved her mother in law. and last bathsheba child died and solomon became king but she did sleep with menm other than her husband. shows different times but the same things happen when it comes to sin
so very late...
sorry.
Ch 3: I liked the story in the beginning a lot, but i think the way the story portrays children and their importance corresponds more to how we say we treat children, the future, today. The children, although loved, were treated as property and were unimportant. Maybe that is why it took them so long to think of the children as a valuable gift. What "becoming like a child" means to me is that in order to correctly practice God's word, we need to have the mentality of a child, a servant. Jesus was a child once, and probably worked his little butt off helping both his parents every day, and when he grew up and began his ministry, he didn't change much. I now find more meaning in living like Jesus did.
Ch4: I basically only knew the story of Ruth, and even then it was just the basics. I really liked when Ruth told Naomi that she wouldn't leave her. It's awesome to me that she sacrificed basically her life to be with Naomi. I realized after that thats where they took the wedding vows from...
I find it weird that two of the women sinned but were blessed by God, while in other places in the Bible, people sin and are punished greatly. I mean this wasn't a little sin like lying or something, its adultery. But i guess it has a purpose. Besides, one of the women, Bathsheba, probably didn't have a choice in the matter seeing that it was David, the king, who called her over and had relations with her.
erika: i agree that bathshebas story was my least favorite. But on the subject of Solomon, it wasnt that he was loved and the other wasn't, its that he was recognized by God and went on to a bunch of great things. He was a symbol, like it says, of peace between them, and was a blessing. The other child, a symbol of death in their sin. i think...
kat: i agree with you, but i was wondering something. Do the poor, sick, elderly, ill treated, always come first, even if they dont do right throughtout their lives, or dont do anything at all and just stagnate? The only determining factor cannot be how you are treated socially, it has to include how you act socially too. Why is that not included when it says "the first shall be last..."? Not a question to you directly, but you know...
Mona: I found it interesting how you said that the past is forgotten, and I completely agree. Im a believer in caring for the elderly, even if it is just your grandparents. It is a way of thanking them for all that they have done for you and for the world. Old people need time to rest, man. They have done enough in their lifetime.
i know this is super late novela but here is my blog for chapter 3&4
Chapter3:
in reading this chapter i was heart broke in the facts of how many kids end up dead before they are even born becasue i in reality wasnt supose to live all the doctors said i was goign to die because i had a premature a they told my mother that i wouldn't live and even now it hits me more becuse we have babies born with HIV and then babies that are just killed because their motehrs don't want them. but i understand when she said that children are called to obey their elders and just be there to surve an learn from those that are there before them and i also agree that children are the future and if we want to enter the kingdom of God we must be willing to take up his laws and teaching liek a child so we can live in eternal life with God and the rest that have taken up his belief like a child or like those that are forgotten becasued those are the important ones the ones that really need Gods help and the ones he came down to help and save.an we must remeber we are all Gods people and we should be willing to help those needy people that dont have all they need to live because they need are help more then we need are help. we must also remeber that we are called ot be like children so to do all we do in the the background and not flaunt it because that is what we are called ot do and i agree with that fully.
Chapter4:
to tell you the truth i have read the genealogy in the bible and i have never notice these women in it i even think i just looked over them to tell you the truth because it goes so back into time that i loose track of who they do and dont mention. but after reading the chapter i see why they are mentioned and their similarities to MAry they all took risk or lost their child just like mary did and got reward by God for puttign all their trust in him just like mary did with taking up Jesus and seeing him die on the cross for are sins.
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